November 16 Meeting Minutes
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Facebook is not the only marketing and advertising we do. I send out concert information to those who have signed up for our mailing list via Constant Contact. The open rate is usually around 50 percent or 200 people. The annual cost for this service is $230 (U.S.). I also post all our concerts on the Burlington Post's events page (which they use to collect events for it's in-paper calendar) and the city's online events page. Also, Joanne makes a point to talk with Leonard from the Spec to get us into that paper as well.
I do believe that Facebook can be a useful tool for publicizing our concerts, but I would wager that the majority of that comes from members sharing the event and the poster themselves rather than through bought views. I do question if we're getting any value for our money from Facebook pushing it out. I know that I've received the paid post several times on my feed and I wonder how many other members have experienced the same thing.
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@lisa-yl I wonder if it is possible to hold two children's concerts, largely using the same music. The French concert has, apparently, a boatload of grant money available if BCB and Centre Francophone start work soon enough. The English children's concert is not a guaranteed money maker, but if we could get sponsors and our free in house narrator it could work, and little additional rehearsal would be required. @gordon might even get his wish to sing Tubby the Tuba again.
I guess it's mainly up to @joanner and all the people who have to do the work @executive to make it happen. -
@cliftonjv 2 childrens concerts is an amazing idea! Let's do this!
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@cliftonjv an English children's concert would definitely pull in money if we charged for it. In the past we did not and it was incredibly well attended.
I don't know if this funding for Francophone concerts is annual or not. I would really caution us against being too niche and try to appeal to the many young families in Burlington. Many moms I spoke to in my large moms group would not attend a French speaking concert even if their kids were in French Immersion as they don't identify in French culture themselves. Our goal is to reach new audiences but also consistent audiences. -
@lisa-yl In 2017, when we had the children's concert at the art gallery, and played Peter and the Wolf, we sold tickets. I can't remember how much they were.
When we had thew next children's concert, and played Tubby the Tuba, we held it at the music centre, which probably disallowed us from selling tickets. If we use a church venue, we would probably sell tickets like we did in October 2022 for French concert.
Jane -
Sorry Lisa, but I disagree. I think we need to reach out to as many new groups in the City that we can and there is a very large French community in Burlington. I am in agreement with doing another concert with them, the only caveat being that funding be in place before we commit. I think we then move on to another group within the City and work with them. As far as charging for children to attend, I am a firm believer in a cost to the parent and the child is free under the age of 12. Afternoon concerts also draw more families than evening concerts do, so something else to consider down the road.
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Free tickets for kids - I'm in favour of that!
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Tickets for our first Peter and the Wolf concert at the Arts Centre went for $10 for kids, $15 for adults and $40 for a family of four. (https://burlingtonconcertband.smugmug.com/Past-Concert-Posters/i-H8f83vv/A)
I'm generally not in favour of giving tickets away for free to large sections of the audience. In some cases it might bring a few extra bodies, but for the most part we're just reducing our capacity for paying customers. I know that we came pretty close to having to turn away folks from our 2018 Christmas concert at Wellington Square. It's a nice problem to have, but it's one I'd rather avoid, particularly if the free seats are filled with bums of people who wouldn't have come on their own.
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@jeff-reynolds I think not charging children under a certain age (like 5) makes sense as long as we are charging for adults, and say something like kids are free with purchase of an adult ticket. This is standard for other things where kids are free or a second kid is free with a paid ticket. But also agree with @gordon for a Children's Concert, that we don't want to lose our on paying audience members who would have paid. And Burlington parents are willing to pay, trust me! I've seen people pay ridiculous amount of money for their kids to experience something much less than what are offering - concert + workshop! Even if we did a family ticket of $30 for a family of 4, or had kids under 5 free and charged a cheaper rate for kids 5-12, could be options.
My point is I think having a children's concert that appeals to as many people as possible is always better than doing a niche group. Especially leading up to Christmas.
Frankly I could argue we should have a concert for Italians (7.9% in 2020) or South Asians (4% in 2020) or any other minority group in Burlington. I would argue in surrounding areas/cities, those audiences are actually much higher than French and you could probably apply for cultural funding/collaborations with local groups/ethnic sponsors. According to the Burlington demographics of 2020, French were 9.2% - to me, that's not a large group at all. Many families I spoke to who send their kids to French Immersion don't identify as Francophone and wouldn't be likely to bring their kids to a concert. We also have no affiliation with being French - if we had a strong membership of French speakers or something I would completely understand doing this every year. I also understand the funding issue but also don't want to bias ourselves to a niche population. Exploring other cultural connections would be equally important if that's what we are looking towards. But to me, I feel broader inclusivity is more important than aiming concerts at certain groups.We could do two concerts back to back if we are able to secure funding and the Executive really wants to do another French concert but I don't think we are reaching new people each time - it would be for the same Francophone families/community who came this time.
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@gordon I agree much of it comes from members sharing events (mentioned in my post, ie the manpower of us all having to share it etc) but also think that promotion towards the greater community is there. From the statistics that I am seeing, the visibility of our event and interactions has improved greatly compared to other times when the event is not promoted. Even if community members click that they are interested, it shows to all their friends etc etc.
Visibility on Facebook is still important for older populations 40+. I haven't had the event come up as an ad repeatedly but it could be because I already responded as "Going". We are the target demographic based on our interests so not surprised if band members are getting the ad as they should be! And I think visibility for reasonable cost/time is worth the investment. Same as to why we do the Burlington Santa Claus parade even though it doesn't pay and a bunch of us volunteer.
I appreciate the mail out work you do and probably it is easier to see results. But I don't think Facebook is so undervalued yet and @executive I would appreciate a bit more support for this advertising considering the amount of work I also put in on social media. It doesn't cost us much to try it and we spent way more on print advertising for years without any returns.
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Ladies and Gentlemen,
This has gotten away from a discussion about the minutes specifically. I apprecirate everyone's passion and opinions, but the discussion about future concerts (children's or otherwise) should be taken up in a separate thread.
Thank you.
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@shewis I actually didn't want to separate to another thread/s specifically when I posted my initial reply because it was related to topics discussed at the meeting which were not all one topic (we would need two more threads going) . But we can save discussion for the next Executive meeting if you prefer this, I did not intend for it to become a long discussion attached to the minutes.
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@shewis related to the software, you are able to "fork" a thread in two if topics derail.
Hit the little gear icon to see the options, and then select the posts to "fork" out to a new topic.
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Just reiterating. 2 children's concerts would be awesome. 1 French with grants and celebrity french narrator, and one english with local celebrity @gordon narrating!
